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Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
465
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Posted - 2013.02.04 22:36:00 -
[1] - Quote
A really good article I wanted to share that partly explains the momentum shift to Caldari/Amarr.
http://themittani.com/features/apathy-swings-pendulum
I especially liked the psychology concept that was covered; "The Diffusion of Responsibility"
Quote:This problem is compounded by the vermin I described in my (now slightly prophetic) previous piece. The plex farmers and plex leechers benefit greatly from a higher tier, however that benefit is diminished if they actually pay into the system to maintain it. Instead they rely on a few workhorse groups within the militia to fight over, take, and pump LP into systems so that they can stay fat and happy. The people who benefit the most are those who provide the least for others. This causes a natural fracture point as those who fight for control are driven towards anger and apathy. In psychology they call this The Diffusion of Responsibility: in a system where anyone can contribute towards success, but no one is accounted for it, very few will step up and bear the weight of the many.
Many individuals in Frogland have wondered why Gallente have slipped to T2 WZ Ctrl when they can so easily hold T3. I will certainly give credit to corps like Liandri and Templis who have plexed their minds out. After some private conversations and emails, I believe there is a certain apathy that many of the workhorse corps/individuals have in Gallente. They no longer wish to carry the load for warzone control. I can't blame them.
A few individuals have tried rallying the troops to hold T3 but it seems no one really cares. I hope we do not slip into T1 because it will be a major uphill climb and have adverse affects on recruitment drives and attracting new blood. Many of the corps who rely on new players will suffer major attrition. Long time vets can sustain themselves but the newer players will suffer the most.
It's time for new blood to take over.
In the end, it's nice to see new blood entering on all sides. It seems every militia now has over 4K players in it and that's hopefully alot more pew and player driven content.
High Five. Yeah!
C'est La Eve . |
Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
468
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 19:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
My sexy hairdo aside, a few additional thoughts;
Andreus Ixiris wrote:No, a pendulum system is terrible because it means that no side can really win, so there's literally no reason whatsoever for anyone but the farmers to want one side to get a higher tier level than the other.
Don't focus too much on higher tiers and "winning". Gallente "won" a few weeks ago and we felt the 'loss' with no WTs around for a few weeks. It got quite boring.
--Plexing Fatigue--
AKA sov grind fatigue. It is quite real. This contributes to the apathy on the Gal side. Grinding through the remaining few systems to get the medal was painful. The only thing more painful than the grind was the semi-public fleets and the amount of spazzes on comms. I'm glad those days are over because it definitely wore out alot of FCs and grunts.
Apathy isn't just limited to the Gallente though. The same goes for the Caldari as well. Like the Amarr, they have exerted alot of energy into grinding through 40+ systems in the past month. That amount of plexing takes a huge mental toll on anyone including battled hardened veterans. The wear and tear of sov grind has shown even for Caldari as there have been a couple of occasions when 3-5 systems have been vulnerable for 48 hour time period but they never bothered to bust the ihub. I can only imagine that their FCs and grunts are tired of doing yet another ihub bash that will eventually be taken back soonish.
As I recently completed my one year anniversary in FW, I realize that being part of a never ending war does require a certain apathetic attitude. You care but you don't care at the same time. One must be very Zen-like in this never ending war. Flow like water my friend. I believe Bruce Lee and his philosophy could survive in FW
And a shout out to fresh faces on the Caldari side such as 700-man alliance, Brosefs . They are one of the few organizations that will actually undock in something bigger than frigs/dessies fleet comps and give us a fight. I wish more corps and alliances would take a cue from these guys and have the courage to fight on gates or belts rather than hiding behind the security of a plex. That is certainly a group who is trying to learn how to pew rather than subject themselves to the daily grind of button spinning.
High Five. Yeah!
C'est La Eve . |
Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
468
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 21:16:00 -
[3] - Quote
Andreus Ixiris wrote:Deen Wispa wrote:Don't focus too much on higher tiers and "winning". Gallente "won" a few weeks ago and we felt the 'loss' with no WTs around for a few weeks. It got quite boring. Which is precisely my point. The Gallente militia's "reward" (and I cannot express just how large the airquote hand guesture I'm making at the present time actually is with any words that exist in a human dictionary) for capturing literally every Caldari system in FW was... Wait for it. Wait for it. Are you still waiting for it? "Yeah, now you get to lose!" **** that.
Right. So if I read between the lines, you want something that is rewarding and fulfilling? Instead of focusing on a tangible reward for accomplishing the ultimate end game (100% WZ Ctrl), try shifting your focus to the personal goals of yours and your corp. Not that of the militia. For me, my personal goals entering FW was
1) Be a better pew pewer
2) Learn to FC
As a director for my corp, my goals are
1) To help corpmates become better at fleet and individual pvp.
And you know what? I've accomplished all three goals to some degree and continue down that journey. And even if Gallente was down to a handful of systems, I would still be quite happy as long as I'm still accomplishing all three of those goals which I find very rewarding and fulfilling. And not to mention the constant week to week collaboration that I do with my fellow allies on all sorts of micro objectives.
I know alot of Cal Mil pilots left FW or unsubbed when CCP released the emergency Fast Foward Patch because it disrupted their 'end game' of accomplishing complete warzone control. To me, that says those pilots really didn't have sustainable goals that went beyond the end game. If they did, they would still be around trying to reach those goals.
I can't help but think how many corps would be better pvp corps and not "plexing corps" if they stopped spinning so many buttons. Don't get me wrong. I believe button spinning is important to holding systems ,maintaining a healthy warzone control, and getting fights. But it's not the end all and be all. There is alot of content outside of the sov-war grind. There are things far more gratifying than the tangible rewards that some of us are demanding out of the game designers.
Just a thought.
High Five. Yeah!
C'est La Eve . |
Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
468
|
Posted - 2013.02.05 23:13:00 -
[4] - Quote
How about I give each of you 1M isk to just stop flying hookbills alltogether?
High Five. Yeah!
C'est La Eve . |
Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
472
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 19:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
HazeInADaze wrote:http://fondl.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=16257005
Hey now, you guys got enough people together to undock. Apathy hasn't killed you yet.
Will never be apathetic towards pew pew. Just button spinning :)
Just wish more Cal Mil would be apathetic towards button spinning and do more fleet comps like you guys do. I think you're the only organization capable of bringing something out that's beyond frigs/dessies. That's sad given the large number of entities that exist in Cal Mil such as Templis, Liandri, and others.
High Five. Yeah!
C'est La Eve . |
Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
472
|
Posted - 2013.02.06 23:34:00 -
[6] - Quote
A couple comments;
Regarding the Vlill push or any home system push for that matter. If there is a hint that the opponent wants to take the system and not there for a fight, then people will eventually blob you. I think you and Amarrian Retribution wanted the GFs...most of the time. But there was a certain crazed LOLRPer who logged on after DT and was more interested in the plexing than the fights. Once our US TZ corp finally got some EU reinforcements, he never bothered coming again and ran from everything. We eventually plexed the system down.
So it gets to a point where blobbing occurs because holding the system is more important than the fight. I've been on both ends of this and have no problem with either side doing it.
As Commisar alluded to, Gallente might be able to field bigger numbers on occasion, but it requires more coordination and effort which generally turns off the veterans who don't have the patience to deal with long form up times.
Let's examine the US TZ landscape in greater detail for both sides and which corps/alliances can field a decent small gang.
Caldari:
- Happy Endings- capable of fielding 8-15 nowadays. Sometimes upwards of 20-30 like last night. But I think that's an anomaly for them.
- Brosefs- 10-15 man cruiser gang with 4 griffins to boot.
- Templis- 7-15 man gang or bigger. Haven't seen much of them recently though
- Liandri- 10-20. But usually frigs/dessies. They do cruisers once in a while if a couple of their FCs wasn't so fixated on huddling 10 frigs into a Novice plex.
Gallente:
- Sammurai Pizza Cats: 5-10 man gang on average.
- Justified Chaos: 5-8
- Villore Accords Alliance: 7-15
- Monkeys with Guns: 4-8
- Spiritus Draconis: 5-10
So judging by these numbers, US TZ FW between Caldari/Gallente is relatively healthy for small gang pew at the 10 man limit. It's just that people have to scale down their expectations of these "big fights of yesteryear" which, quite frankly, are anti-climatic as shown in Haze's BR link. It's just one side blobbing/ganking the other.
High Five. Yeah!
C'est La Eve . |
Deen Wispa
Justified Chaos
474
|
Posted - 2013.02.07 19:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
GavinGoodrich wrote:well...we sorta made it to page 2 without any whining. not the most terrible FW thread ever.
Gavin- I insist that you take on the burden of leading semi-public fleets of 40 and teaching the next generation of Caldari pilots what a nano drake is. If not for your people then for all the AFKers docked up in Nenn waiting for that next big epic fight
High Five. Yeah!
C'est La Eve . |
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